Jay, you have great tutorials! I have come to understand many things now! But I can still be a little dense from time to time... LOL
Fern... Great talent! I can tell you have been dong things awhile! Hope I pickup on a few things from you. Time will tell...
1. Dealing with the infamous "float" of objects. I'm assuming I have not correctly rotated my object, using both zoot and mahkor... Should I be placing my object, the exact same corner of all views, on the highlighted grid square?
2. After reading the building & sounds tutorials, I am assuming that it is possible to add more than one sound file to a building. Is it a matter of just listing the file names under the sounds sections and how would you "control" the number and order that they would play in?
3. Where are all the graphics coming from? Screen shots from other games? And how "fussy" (scale, precision of layout and design) do you have to be when editing and creating graphics?
4. When creating a building, does there have to be a blending edge around the base of the building, as most I have looked at do, or can it be just the edge of the building?
Rotations, Graphics, Sounds & Buildings
Both Makhor and zoot work differently with placement for rotations. Have you managed to get Makhor to work? Many have problems just getting it to work as it is a Windows ME tool, although I have it working on xp.
It also depends on the footprints of what you are rotating. Also, for me, it depends on how many files I am doing. At one point I was doing all the rotations for ZooTek and I would be doing lots of them in one go. So for those I found Makhor was a better choice. But it leaves a lot of easy cleaning up to do. Zoot is great for large files and files where preciseness is essential. Mind you you can be precise in Makhor but it is not so easy. It took a while for me to get the coloured buildings and the annexes by cdl (all at Tek) rotated so they fitted seamlessly together.
If you can get them both going then it boils down to a personal choice of which one you use.
So can you give me the footprint details and the choice of tool you want to use.
cFootprintX = ?
cFootprintY = ?
It also depends on the footprints of what you are rotating. Also, for me, it depends on how many files I am doing. At one point I was doing all the rotations for ZooTek and I would be doing lots of them in one go. So for those I found Makhor was a better choice. But it leaves a lot of easy cleaning up to do. Zoot is great for large files and files where preciseness is essential. Mind you you can be precise in Makhor but it is not so easy. It took a while for me to get the coloured buildings and the annexes by cdl (all at Tek) rotated so they fitted seamlessly together.
If you can get them both going then it boils down to a personal choice of which one you use.
So can you give me the footprint details and the choice of tool you want to use.
cFootprintX = ?
cFootprintY = ?
Makhor is working on my machine with xp, as far as I can tell. No error messages or hang ups anyway. The foot print for what I was playing with was 3x6... it was actually 2 1/2 x 5 1/2 which is where the "scaling" of it comes into play I think. I have since down sized my "project" and have been playing with the restrooms, as in the tutorial. Nothing of real importance, just getting a feel for how things go together before I try a "real" project.
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Jay
- african elephant keeper
- Posts: 11552
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:23 pm
- Location: Orlando, FL (M:66)
Except for 1x1 and 2x1 footprints, odd number footprints should not be used. They are extremely difficult to adjust their rotations in either MAKHOR or ZOOT. Also, ZT often gets confused with things placed next to them, making parts of those things disappear. So a 2 and a half by 5 and a half would have to use a 4x6 footprint.
To make adjusting rotation positions easily, ideally you want the size of your object to be as close to the size of the footprint as possible. For example, if your object fills 4x6, then you would put the object's front corner against the front corner of the grid square in either MAKHOR or ZOOT. But if your object only fills part of that 4x6, you should center the image in a 4x6. If the object is a building that will be entered by guests or animals, then the door should be against the grid lines, and the rear rotation adjustments would be away from the grid lines. As you can see, it can get complicated very quickly for objects that do not fill footprints.
A building cannot have more than one sound file.
Some graphics are coming from other games; some graphics are modified versions of ZT graphics; some graphics are made from scratch; some graphics are made by users for other games; some graphics are being put together from basic graphics meant to be put together. How fussy one is depends on the individual. Some graphics are very consistent and precise; others are not. Personally, I prefer consistent and precise ones, but I also know that is not always easy to accomplish.
There does not have to be a "blending" edge around the base of a building and, preferably, there should not be. It is more realistic when there is not one, especially for buildings that are entered by guests or animals. Although there are a number of user made buildings that do not have just the edge of the building, I actually believe most do.
To make adjusting rotation positions easily, ideally you want the size of your object to be as close to the size of the footprint as possible. For example, if your object fills 4x6, then you would put the object's front corner against the front corner of the grid square in either MAKHOR or ZOOT. But if your object only fills part of that 4x6, you should center the image in a 4x6. If the object is a building that will be entered by guests or animals, then the door should be against the grid lines, and the rear rotation adjustments would be away from the grid lines. As you can see, it can get complicated very quickly for objects that do not fill footprints.
A building cannot have more than one sound file.
Some graphics are coming from other games; some graphics are modified versions of ZT graphics; some graphics are made from scratch; some graphics are made by users for other games; some graphics are being put together from basic graphics meant to be put together. How fussy one is depends on the individual. Some graphics are very consistent and precise; others are not. Personally, I prefer consistent and precise ones, but I also know that is not always easy to accomplish.
There does not have to be a "blending" edge around the base of a building and, preferably, there should not be. It is more realistic when there is not one, especially for buildings that are entered by guests or animals. Although there are a number of user made buildings that do not have just the edge of the building, I actually believe most do.
Thanks for the information Jay!
I did try to "center" the object within the grid as well as setting the corner right on the Makhor square... Hmmmm... Must be operator error...
I understand that any door should be right up to the edge for placement, making the slots easier to program. I also kind of figured it was designers choice about the blending edge. What would be the easiest way to "scale" a graphic to fit the grid?
My ultimate goal is a maintenance building. I wanted to use several in game sounds, but wasn't sure if it would let me rotate through them or if it had to be just one...
I also noticed a building based off the compost building, named "recycle center". From what I could tell, it uses the same .ai and such to bring in $$ for the zoo. I suppose you could just insert that section into your own buildings programming, or am I off here too?
I did try to "center" the object within the grid as well as setting the corner right on the Makhor square... Hmmmm... Must be operator error...
I understand that any door should be right up to the edge for placement, making the slots easier to program. I also kind of figured it was designers choice about the blending edge. What would be the easiest way to "scale" a graphic to fit the grid?
My ultimate goal is a maintenance building. I wanted to use several in game sounds, but wasn't sure if it would let me rotate through them or if it had to be just one...
I also noticed a building based off the compost building, named "recycle center". From what I could tell, it uses the same .ai and such to bring in $$ for the zoo. I suppose you could just insert that section into your own buildings programming, or am I off here too?
Yes, That would be operator errormww2165 wrote: I did try to "center" the object within the grid as well as setting the corner right on the Makhor square... Hmmmm... Must be operator error...
With makhor you are looking at a diamond shape. For centering you always use the bottom corner for each view. If you want to understand it, find something rotated by me (then I know it is right) and load it in Makhor and note the positions in each view. At this site I would suggest the Arctic Theme Pack. This is one I updated and has a variety of shapes in it.If you are going to reuse ids I would suggest you read the bathroom tutorial to understand some things. There are things that would need changing in the ai file for your one. Footprints and slots being two main ones. There are others that will need tweaking depending on the criteria being met. While I make the stuff and have a fairly good understanding of it, you strike me as a very technical type person and so is Jay so it is easier to let him explain things. Plus, I am good at telling you what you are doing wrong and why if I have the file in front of me.My ultimate goal is a maintenance building. I wanted to use several in game sounds, but wasn't sure if it would let me rotate through them or if it had to be just one...
I also noticed a building based off the compost building, named "recycle center". From what I could tell, it uses the same .ai and such to bring in $$ for the zoo. I suppose you could just insert that section into your own buildings programming, or am I off here too?
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Jay
- african elephant keeper
- Posts: 11552
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:23 pm
- Location: Orlando, FL (M:66)
Unlike other buildings, compost buildings do not use slots. But the footprints and esthetic values could be different. The 8-character id would definitely be different. Other than those, the ".ai" lines would be the same. I have not tested if a user made building can use the ingame compost building id and be able to be in a zoo at the same time as the ingame compost building. But other types of user made buildings can use the same ids as ingame non-researched buildings. So I would assume compost buildings could as well. Understanding the bathroom tutorial would be useful because all user made buildings need ".cfg" and ".scn" files. Having a user made compost building will not bring in any more money to the zoo. ZT will not care if a zoo has user made compost buildings, ZT's own compost buildings, or both. ZT sees how many are in the zoo and randomly picks one each time poo is scooped up.
As for scaling (resizing) graphic images, any graphics program should be able to handle that. In my case, I use GIMP as the graphics program. If a ZT grid square was put in a graphics program, it would be 64 pixels horizontally and 32 pixels vertically. But it can be confusing how that translates to building edges. You can take a screenshot inside ZT with the grid lines on and then load the screenshot into a graphics program to get a better feel for sizes.
As for scaling (resizing) graphic images, any graphics program should be able to handle that. In my case, I use GIMP as the graphics program. If a ZT grid square was put in a graphics program, it would be 64 pixels horizontally and 32 pixels vertically. But it can be confusing how that translates to building edges. You can take a screenshot inside ZT with the grid lines on and then load the screenshot into a graphics program to get a better feel for sizes.
Fern! You agreed with me too easily on operator error!!! 
Like I said, I'll scale down the ambitions until I "get it"... I d\l the arctic pack and will play with it today. Yes I am a technical person, it goes with the job. It has also developed in me the habit, good or bad, of being a perfectionist!
Jay, I figured out that zt will only use one compost building at all, and that being the first one placed in game. Kind of rules out picking up off that... As for the scaling of graphics... I did a screen shot of the grid and use it to get a "general" idea of the size... I might need a bit more powerful graphics program... I read a post somwhere of someone using what BF used to create the in game graphics. Do you know what it is?
I'll keep poking around into files and such and I'll see about getting a quick one done this weekend for you to look at and make suggestions for... I look forward to Fern "correcting" me.
Like I said, I'll scale down the ambitions until I "get it"... I d\l the arctic pack and will play with it today. Yes I am a technical person, it goes with the job. It has also developed in me the habit, good or bad, of being a perfectionist!Jay, I figured out that zt will only use one compost building at all, and that being the first one placed in game. Kind of rules out picking up off that... As for the scaling of graphics... I did a screen shot of the grid and use it to get a "general" idea of the size... I might need a bit more powerful graphics program... I read a post somwhere of someone using what BF used to create the in game graphics. Do you know what it is?
I'll keep poking around into files and such and I'll see about getting a quick one done this weekend for you to look at and make suggestions for... I look forward to Fern "correcting" me.
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Jay
- african elephant keeper
- Posts: 11552
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:23 pm
- Location: Orlando, FL (M:66)
Although BF said what 3D graphics program they used for ZT2, that was not the same they used for ZT1 and I have not heard what graphics program they used for ZT1. Although they provided users with the original APE, it is obvious they did not use APE and I suspect that has something to do with what graphics program they used. So it could be useful to know.
mww2165 wrote: Fern! You agreed with me too easily on operator error!!!
The moment you said you went "right", not "down", it was obvious. I have done hundreds of rotations for Tek, ZTUF and ZA over the years and I know the crashes and quirks that makhor throws so I know where to lay the blame.Both Zoot and Makhor have quirks, so it is just a matter of learning them and working with, or around them.
Same as these days when a building crashes the game, both Jay and I can tell you the likely error, by at what point the game crashes.
You will there are a number of perfectionists around including myself and Jay. Another one you will see in the forums is Dr Rick. He did animated koala trees for ZT1. They are available at ZTUF.